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Post by Admin on Sept 22, 2015 13:27:55 GMT
Attempting to capitalize on my seemingly perpetual state of intellectual adolescence, I am working my way through Zarathustra (hard work considering my recent discovery that my average reading speed is less than 100 words/minute). I hope to find more mature insights than I would have had I read it in high school (when I think most do read this text). I have just finished Ecce Homo and I have "read" The Genealogy of Morals and Beyond Good and Evil. Reading Walter Kaurmann versions when possible - very helpful insights in footnotes and mini-analyses of each section.
9.14.15
Thoughts on belief, Christianity, and Christ: Inspirations from Nietzsche (Ecce Homo, Why I Am Destiny)
Is believing in who Christ was, a divine spirit and perfect embodiment of living well (eudaimonia), not “being a Christian”? Is living first for a sense of justice by repeated attempts to prove biblical truth or disproving un-biblical truth not sin? Christ: the perfect example of “how to become what one is”; not the embodiment of a set of a certain few traits of holiness, but an archetype (a dried river bed) that guides what life that takes its shape to imprint itself onto the world as an emergent flow of a perfect devouring of the immediate present moment from the platter of eternal fullness. Christ: not man nor woman; not Jesus, but shown through him; the path toward a life of experiencing God in ways that always terrify and exhilarate, satiate through hunger, quench through thirst, and leave one wanting within a state of complacent bliss; Saying “Yes” to life.
There is confusion in the views of Christianity, the views of Jesus and the views of Christ. When did “Christianity” become the idol after which human kind followed seeking haven and sanctuary; when did “Jesus” become synonymous with “Christ”; when did Christ take its place as an anthropomorphic elemental facet of what the eternal and unknowable God is rather than the potential in one to be what they are, to be oneself well, to exchange comfort with fulfillment, to be restful in one’s striving? Nietzsche seems to think that this occurred during the propagation of the Christ-message that took the shape of an institutionalization of “the church” emphasizing Pauline doctrine [my assertion] and the canonization of the sacred text of the bible; possibly also the re-standardization of what a human being is, what one should be, and what one should not be and the resultant change of instinctive morality (a re-standardization mobilized by human measure and guided by the continued flux of human reason and judgment – again, my assertion). This is what N. – often hilariously arrogantly – proposed was his mission: to turn the backward value system of what “Christianity” has become “right-side-up”… More than a little haughty, but done in such a manner possibly to more forcefully insert the necessity of drawing ones attention (indeed, of drawing all points of attention) toward the possibility of new life; the movement of human kind into an era of reconsideration and deconstruction of former assumptive belief. I am a Christian. I want Christ to emerge as I emerge; for Christ to be what form my vitality takes as I grow toward death – as I birth toward dying. Church is an instrument and Jesus is an example of the [one] true thing: Christ. Be now; be what you are; love yourself, others and what you are together lest life becomes what it can so easily: a cycling of mistaken living; a vessel of holes into which the water of life is poured just to drain out, re-poured, drained out, frantically re-poured until none is left, then…
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Post by Admin on Sept 25, 2015 13:54:10 GMT
"It is out of the deepest depth that the highest with come to their height."
"All the secrets of your foundation shall be brought to light; and when you lie uprooted and broken in the sun, then will your lies also be separated from your truths."
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Post by Sindder Streg on Nov 17, 2015 21:27:25 GMT
I appreciate your thoughts here. Quite so, I believe you are correct about the becoming more of yourself. This is the highest view of such a thing. In my view, one could pick *any* deity up high enough on the food chain and accomplish the same goal. Yet... in such circumstances as the way things seem to work the deity calls you as well. So I do not believe in one true religion or that Jesus is the only way to do this. I believe that Christ on the other hand is an archtype throughout humanity, more of a powertool, than person, for the job at hand. And, it depends how you look at it, but I believe this to be an accomplishable goal -- I'll stress here: *IN THIS LIFE* (if you know what you're looking for). But once you become a Christ you are at the mercy of your Father. Such as the way it was with Jesus. And the humanity in us, again, evidenced in Jesus, isn't always going to like this end. BTW, this is way above psychology (which could be seen as the 'casting out of demons' phase in Jesus' story). There's always the miracles phase to look forward to for some cool shit. But in the end, the hero always dies.
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Post by Sindder Streg on Dec 10, 2015 20:27:48 GMT
That is to say, God is the nothingness/awareness in which all of space arises and you can awaken to this space-holder through an icon of liberation, Jesus, if you will. This is basis of mystical Christianity. Don't care about the rest of it, personally. Though I go to church and a bible study, I don't particularly care for either of them. They just don't matter to me. I do enjoy the comradery of these communities though. I've got nothing against Christianity, per se, I just don't care for it. It doesn't do anything for me. Seems kind of harsh and I would never tell anyone this, but I'm sure it comes out sometimes. It feels like an empty idol. The technology of spirituality has been figured out. It's all available for download. What's left is for you to do it, that's all. So going to church is useless.
People want to be part of something. They've been taught Christianity. They've been warned of leaving it. They would never do that, they'd be "out" of the tribe, the enemy, obviously demented by Satan. It's all parlor tricks to keep kids behaving, adult kids. This is the purpose I see it serving: social control. Nobody actually cares about God, the Truth. They just want to keep their eyes down and not look where they're told not to look. Look at the puppet, there is no puppet-master to see here. Don't look! You'll go to Hell!
Now, magick is study of how belief affects change. So it's not about the belief itself, it's about how that belief achieves changes in the real world. You can actually believe things and make them come true!! Any belief!! It's incredible!! You can change your world by believing different things.
I see Christianity as a dry set of beliefs. The safe option. Cut and worn in the psychic structure of our world. But with magick, you can believe anything!! Explore new territory, be yourself, try on new beliefs, see how they work for you, discard them or adopt them at will. Be scared, be amazed, be trapped, be free, be someone new, be part of something existent. Anything you want!
This is point of studying and practicing magick. You can see when other are practicing magick but they have no idea they're doing it. The entire world is shaped like this. Everyone's beliefs cut scars into the psychic structure of the world and thus, "the world" appears. It's all magick.
Thus the Thelemic Law: 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will.' Do what you have willed into existence and do not interfere with the will of another.
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Post by Sindder Streg on Feb 18, 2016 18:01:15 GMT
I wanted to come back to Christianity for a moment to get your opinion on something. You've mentioned before that you have no interest in becoming a Buddhist. What are the deal breakers for you? Is there anything where you just do. not. agree with their beliefs? I get the whole not wanting to be a Buddhist externally, in robes and shit, but what makes you go, "wow, Buddhism is stupid"? What breaks the whole deal for you? I'm interested because I respect your opinion and I want to question the beliefs you point out in myself.
For me, with Christianity, I can eye roll at the misogyny and the angry father and the gay bashing amidst, what I perceive as, obvious negative consequences in our world and society with these views. I also value that Christian views helped share the comfy environment I find myself in. I can get over people believing differently than me (one reality tunnel among many) but the absolute deal breaker for me, that I would argue all day long against, is the Absolute Deity of Jesus. The central thing about the whole deal. We've talked about this before, but the way I see it (another reality tunnel, yes) anyone can have spiritual results, which is what I believe happened to Jesus. As evidenced by esoteric religions the world over.
**Personal psychological section, bare with me, thinking out loud**
I guess Jesus is considered part God, part man. He sittith on the right hand of God. I guess I don't agree with the worldview. But why do I have to argue against the whole thing? Why can't I just ignore it? What's my beef? I feel oppressed- unable to share my views for fear of ostracization. Perhaps I just don't share the parts that are controversial with those I know it would offend. This, in a direct yet subtle way, is sharing my beliefs. But then how am I to act out my views without being questioned on my true views. Suppose I join a meditation class or start and occult group. How am I to not be judged? I'll just have to take judgement. Live and let live, and defend my rights if questioned while not overtly offending others. I don't think occultism exclusively is offensive to Christianity anymore. I just see it as exploring hidden "powers". That's not exclusively offensive to Christianity and surrendering to Deity is a common occult practice. We just don't shove it on others. We'd rather be private about it. That's a difference. But occultism is becoming more accepted. I just wouldn't tell my family I'm an occultist. Meditation is fine. I've found it's looked on stereotypically. I love it when my kids pretend to meditate! But I did have a great conversation with my Dad about what meditation does. He said, "what do you think about when you meditate?" I explained that we watch our thoughts and don't get caught up in them. That's it's training in awareness. He seemed to get it and even said "I can do that right now". I said try it for 5 or 10 minutes! He said that would be more hard. I explained with practice we gain control over our thought process and that our brain was an organ like the heart or lungs. I didn't get to the part how we often think we ARE our thoughts! That's next lesson, lol! Back to the topic at hand: why the fuck would I want to offend people? I wouldn't! But- I do want to act on my occult views: do magick, join groups, speak openly. This is just something I'm going to have to deal with and learn from and work on case by case basis.
**Back to your regularly scheduled program**
I honor Christianity by making the internal search myself. But, I don't feel really comfortable saying exclusively this is Christianity. I think I can get away with it but when it comes down to it, it's not.
Our pastor once talked about open handed content and closed handed content. Closed handed stuff was Jesus' resurrection, virgin birth, etc. Open handed was interpretations of other scripture. I don't belief the closed hand stuff so I guess that makes me not a Christian. Our church picks on Catholicism sometimes and I'm like, "I like Catholicism". I'm friendly toward Christians but if I came out with these views it would not be a good thing. At the least I'd get a talking to, at the worst I'd be asked to leave the church. Are there really liberal churches? Unitarian Universalism or something. And, I'm not one of those all paths lead to the same place people either but I think that we all have divinity within us. Certainly I don't think I'm alone in these views. I find them fairly common sensed (minus the rest of the esoteric achievement stuff, but in general I mean- liberal religious views). But if I tossed out the whole Creator God too I would certainly be in atheism territory. Like I said, I'm an esotericist. I believe in God, just not in the means prescribed by closed handed content. I believe we can have a relationship with God, just not only through Jesus. I believe Jesus was divine, but also that everything else has divine potential too.
What's your take on all this? Mea culpa if this is all just dumb.
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Post by Admin on Feb 19, 2016 4:03:00 GMT
I sit around waiting for people to ask me my opinion about this type of thing. Don't know what that says about me but...
I may not be in the majority here amongst Christians, but I am talking about two different things when I say "Jesus" and when I say "Christ". I take refuge - so to speak - in the Christ that Christianity attempts to describe and I view the story of Jesus as the presentation of Christ. That presentation is a living, breathing thing to me. The presentation/portrayal of Christ is not a story that is finished being told nor will it ever be finished being told. Without going into my blend of post-modern hermeneutics (or non-hermeneutics) with my reading of Christian scripture, I'll just say that the Christ that I pray to and for is the one that is not worried about rising from death or virgin births. THE MAJOR TRAGEDY OF CHRISTIANITY in my view is the metonymy that is ubiquitously slandering any hope of sharing 'Christ' with anyone by confusing Christ's views about "me" with Christians' views about "everybody" - in other words, every single person I have ever met in my whole life who has any problem whatsoever with Christianity has described the main point(s) of contention as being failings of Christians or the Church, not of Christ. Christ is at the bottom of the rotten-apple basket and people walk by, pick up one of the shitty apples, take a whiff and say, "no way am I trying that shit. It smells to bad!". Even if they respectfully spend all day trying a bunch of them, so jackass keeps coming by to refill the basket with even worse-smelling fruit.
"I grew up in church, and was always made to feel..." "I knew a pastor that everyone respected and he made me feel shameful because..." "I don't want anything to do with those nuts, they believe/don't believe in..." "I had interest in the faith, but this fat guy was screaming and sweating and carrying on about this and that that was WRONG and that I would burn for" (detect an air of the viscerally familiar in that last one? it's the one I narrowly escaped from).
One of the real miracles of Christianity is that, because of the fact that Christianity (and by extension, Christ) is judged by what Christians do/say, we (Christians) seem to be ironically hell-bent on not convincing ANYONE that it is a good idea! The total irony though, despite all the fear-mongering and hate-sublimation, is that I fully believe most people are doing their very best to be truthful to the God they are trying to worship. It still, nonetheless, pisses me off. Quite honestly, I sometimes (not for too long) feel envy for those who just dismiss Christianity out of hand - at least they don't have to keep convincing themselves that the people they say they share a common belief with are actually saying the same thing, but in a way that couldn't be much different at times.
Your question about Buddhism; what makes it out of the question for me? The answer is this: I'm not Buddhist! Never was. If I can't be a Christian and continue seeking God, being a Buddhist or anything else won't change anything. I have no reason NOT to be a non-Buddhist. It's cool to read about and even to learn things from (lots of things even), but to say, "well, I'm a Buddhist now" would be silly for me - not to mention a very non-Buddhist thing to do; from what I've read, Buddha wouldn't have cared in the slightest if I decide never to be Buddhist. There are doctrinal things that push me away from Buddhism, but as I'm writing this post now I am reminded of all the many-more doctrinal things that drive me away from being Christian! But, because of those forces pushing me away from Christianity, I feel like I am falling into the arms of Christ which allows me to see the benefit of my own struggle; a struggle Jesus (the man) could most certainly have empathized with. I love Christ because I believe Christ knows what it feels like to be an atheist - probably the most genuine feeling of atheism ever felt - and God still "is".
I understand the feeling of forced hiding. Even in my interests in reading and practicing certain aspects of non-religious Buddhist psychology, I feel like I'd better be careful lest I get scorned, looked at sideways or get asked not to teach Sunday school anymore. This is a double struggle for me because I'm thinking, "wait a minute... I AM a Christian and I'm worried about not being seen as Christian ENOUGH?!" Crazy. I will say, having a sounding board in places like my own personal diaries/reflections (in the intellectual sense, not the non-self-seeking sense) and through conversations with people like Kim and you, I am able to hang my dirty laundry out to dry in a safe place so I can examine what I need to before making any big, soon-to-be-reversed-anyway decisions. If I were to wake up tomorrow and devote myself head-long to being a Buddhist, I wouldn't escape any problems I currently have regarding my religious identity (that even feels wrong to write). That would be like jumping out of the ship I was sailing in because of a rumor of a leak just to swim through tempestuous waters toward a distant ship in hopes that they aren't sinking. That leads me to one of the biggest conflicts I face with conventional Christianity: salvation... I have no idea whatsoever if I or you or anyone else has in store for them an eternity of bliss or if there is a "place" where punishments are doled out. I don't feel it's my job to even pretend like my opinion mattered on the subject anyway. I feel my job (as a witness, if you will) is to be open, loving, and encouraging to myself and others to seek God. Can people call God something other than that to which Christ aims? Who knows; not my job to figure that out. But I've chosen to be a Christian - baggage and all - with the understanding that there is no perfect religion or path in living. We all try, but none of us do it just right.
Lots more thoughts that would be in the territory of rambling at this point. I do hope to continue this conversation. I occupy tons of time thinking on this very thing; a variation on "who am I?".
I love how there have been several times that I've had something happen to me or a certain experience or kind of day and you post a statement or question that addresses it directly. This topic is a perfect example. I have literally been depressed and forlorn over the fact that my day to day beliefs about my self and certain intuitive senses of fulfillment regarding God and my attempt at reaching toward God don't always match the (conventional) form of the faith to which I subscribe. Today I hit an impasse. I think I knew I had to change something or nihilism would surely set in as it has in the past. So I said to myself in a moment of true effortless living, "it's ok that right now I believe two opposing - even contradicting - things. no one knows everything all the time. just be with those two sides of belief. they will figure each other out." I think that is the plight of everyone: allow your proclivities to match what you choose out of what you have been given in a way that is genuine. I have certain natural ways of being/worshiping that "just come"; I come from a history of Christianity that CAN offer me something if I allow it to be a Christianity of Christ instead of merely a Christianity of Christians; I have been given Christ - that's undeniable. Kind of a game-changing epiphany for me. I don't have to change right now. I can give myself permission to be uncertain and to doubt while still climbing the mountain. Maybe one day I'll take a break and turn around to marvelous realization that I've climbed a lot higher than I thought! Up until now I think I might have been trying so hard to chase God that I didn't notice it tapping me on the shoulder the whole time beckoning me to pause and sit with God enjoying some comfortable silence.
"Now and then it's good to pause in our pursuit of happiness and just be happy."
-Guillaume Apollinaire
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Post by Sindder Streg on Feb 19, 2016 18:54:12 GMT
You have an important opinion. One that Joel Osteen certainly isn't making.
I think as a meditator you may be closer to God as an atheist. But, not really. It's all just thinking. Meditate and you will find God. "Now, instruction in Union. Union is restraining the thought-streams natural to the mind. Then the seer dwells in his own nature."
I feel this Union often. Non the wiser as to what it is.
Atheism is as good as nihilism or magick or Christianity. As long as you meditate, you can achieve. I believe Christ can lead you to Union. I'd even go so far as to say that the Christ and the Holy Guardian Angel (HGA) share the same nature. The makeup is different but it's the same face. Just a guess.
I quite prefer nihilism sometimes. It's good for a few laughs. Atheism at other times. Paganism is the realm I'm most interested in. Christianity I rarely wander. I gave that up many years ago. I remember the exact moment actually. I also remember the exact moment I became a magician.
Who's the sweaty fat guy you narrowly escaped from?
Please say more on Christianity. I don't know what questions to ask. I do know there is a rich mystical Christian tradition that I hope to see your name published in and added to!
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